NextGen Pawns, how to improve the Classic Chess Pawn

Which NextGen Pawns You like most: you can chose up to 3 NextGen Pawns.

Poll runs till Fri Jul 09, 2021 6:14 pm

1) Berolina / Berolina Chess
1
8%
2) Athens / Athens Chess
1
8%
3) Sergeant / Vienna Chess
2
17%
4) Colonel / Massilia Chess
1
8%
5) General / Lutetia Chess
1
8%
6) Commander / Sparta Chess
1
8%
7) Lieutenant / Moscovia Chess
2
17%
8) Captain / Geneva Chess
0
No votes
9) Corporal / Petrópolis Chess
1
8%
10) Prussian / Prussian Chess
2
17%
 
Total votes: 12

H.G.Muller
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Re: NextGen Pawns, how to improve the Classic Chess Pawn

Post by H.G.Muller » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:05 pm

And that new way involves capturing two Pawns in a single move?

musketeerchess
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Re: NextGen Pawns, how to improve the Classic Chess Pawn

Post by musketeerchess » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:30 pm

I didn't even thought about a double capture !

H.G.Muller
Posts: 22
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Re: NextGen Pawns, how to improve the Classic Chess Pawn

Post by H.G.Muller » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:32 pm

A double capture will always be a possibility when you allow an en passant capture to occur by moving to a square that the previously pushed Pawn does not have to pass through (so that it can be occupied). The only guarantee that the e.p. square will be empty is when the double push would be blocked if it is not, so that it never can become e.p. square.

musketeerchess
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Re: NextGen Pawns, how to improve the Classic Chess Pawn

Post by musketeerchess » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:24 am

there is a poll in this thread. Can you vote for your favorite modified pawn (choice among your 3 best pawns).
Thanks

H.G.Muller
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: NextGen Pawns, how to improve the Classic Chess Pawn

Post by H.G.Muller » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:09 am

It is not possible to judge pieces for which it is not fully specified how they move. I have for instance no idea what your picture for the Merry Pawn means? How do they capture normally? How do they e.p. capture?

Most of the Pawns are not really Pawns, but weak pieces that can roam the entire board. I don't think it is a very good idea to have so many pieces that can do that. Even of those that (without capturing) are confined to a file many have moves that are no longer irreversible, as they can go backward. This subverts the 50-move rule, and they cannot be judged without knowing how the 50-move rule will be modified to accomodate them.

It also seems a bad idea to have Pawns that can mutually protect each other. Xiangqi gets away with this because there are only few Pawns to begin with, and even fewer will manage to pass the River (and if more than one does, it usually takes many moves before they can lock up).

musketeerchess
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Re: NextGen Pawns, how to improve the Classic Chess Pawn

Post by musketeerchess » Tue Dec 03, 2019 11:59 am

H.G.Muller wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:09 am
It is not possible to judge pieces for which it is not fully specified how they move. I have for instance no idea what your picture for the Merry Pawn means? How do they capture normally? How do they e.p. capture?

Most of the Pawns are not really Pawns, but weak pieces that can roam the entire board. I don't think it is a very good idea to have so many pieces that can do that. Even of those that (without capturing) are confined to a file many have moves that are no longer irreversible, as they can go backward. This subverts the 50-move rule, and they cannot be judged without knowing how the 50-move rule will be modified to accomodate them.

It also seems a bad idea to have Pawns that can mutually protect each other. Xiangqi gets away with this because there are only few Pawns to begin with, and even fewer will manage to pass the River (and if more than one does, it usually takes many moves before they can lock up).
Hi HG
I will detail all these pawns.

The Merry Pawn: they can move as long as possible when a file is opened. Like shown on the diagram. This means that if a pawn is on a2 and the a file is free without blocking piece, the pawn can promote, unless it is capture en-passant by a black pawn located in any square from b7 to b4 (if there is a black pawn on b3 it cannot take en-passant).

H.G.Muller
Posts: 22
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:24 pm

Re: NextGen Pawns, how to improve the Classic Chess Pawn

Post by H.G.Muller » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:08 pm

OK, so they capture diagonally forward, as usual. And the promoted piece can be captured e.p.

My first impression is that Berolina, Shogi and Merry Pawns will work reasonably well; the others will probably not feel very Pawn-like. A less extreme version of Merry Pawns would be Metamachy Pawns: they have a double-push (which can be replied to with e.p. capture) everywhere.

sam
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue May 01, 2018 6:58 pm

Re: NextGen Pawns, how to improve the Classic Chess Pawn

Post by sam » Wed Dec 25, 2019 3:29 am

I like the simplicity of Athens, its top 1 on my list, it can move one square back vertically (non-capture) except of course if is at 2nd rank or start square. This can convert the usual even game in chess to a win in KPvK ending. It would be interesting to see the results for KRPvKR.

Next is Prussian, this is also a simple modification to a classic pawn. It can move back diagonally (non-capture) so there are two additional possible moves. This may also help win a game in KPvK ending in chess. This NextGen Pawn (NGP) is like a silver in shogi.

Next is Vienna, additional pawn moves are added only if it reaches 5th rank or more. By reaching higher ranks its power increases. This can create problem in king defense, if this piece is able to penetrate the squares near the opponent's king because the pawn shelter of opponent's king is still like a pawn and this NGP has already gained additional power. So early in the game, there is a struggle of occupying 5th ranks and beyond. There is less concern on over extended NGP because it can move back when it is already in ranks 5, 6 and 7.

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